Talking Heads · Sep 30, 2026
With Fadi Berbari, Senior Portfolio Manager, Fixed Income, at BNP Paribas Asset Management
Europe's programs to rebuild and rearm itself add up to about €2 trillion of investment, Fadi Berbari said, and the bond market is where most of it can be financed.
Much of Europe's new borrowing debate is about governments that are already heavily indebted. Berbari said the opportunity he is describing is the opposite: lending to the companies doing the work, not to the states.
"The aim is not to fund states."
Fadi Berbari, a senior portfolio manager in BNP Paribas Asset Management's fixed income team in Paris, on the firm's Talking Heads podcast, laid out the case for bond investors in Europe's push for "strategic autonomy" in defense, energy, communications and technology.
The full segment is covered here so you can skip it.
Here are the 6 arguments that matter.
Key Takeaways
Europe's autonomy programs add up to about €2 trillion of investment
Rebuild Europe, rearm Europe, the European Chips Act and infrastructure rebuilding
Bonds can finance more of the theme than stocks, because they reach private, listed and state-owned companies alike
The strategy lends to companies, not to governments, which Berbari said already have enough public funding
Europe's large pension funds, bank deposits and asset managers can offset state debt, he said, and US government debt is probably higher
Investors are buying stability and visibility, not only a return
Europe means the whole continent, not the eurozone, with Britain cited as a partner in technology and defense
1. Why Europe Wants Autonomy
The host, from BNP Paribas Asset Management's investment insights team, asked why strategic autonomy had become such a large investment subject.
Berbari said the world is moving away from a single, integrated system. China and India are growing, the United States is "more and more alone," and Europe has faced a run of shocks, starting with Covid and followed by the war between Russia and Ukraine. He added changing climate conditions to the list of threats Europe may have to face alone, with a political and economic system it needs to protect.
"One way for Europe to be still in the worldwide race is to grow together into an independent and strong Europe built all together." — Fadi Berbari
